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Suggestion - Implementing Government Planning Department (Faction Change)

Buddy

Lead Administrator
Staff member
Lead Administrator
New Suggestion/Idea



What does it affect?
Tick all that apply
[X] MTA:RP Gameplay
[ ] User Interface
[ ] MTA:RP Forums
[ ] UCP
[ ] Only MTA:RP Staff (Administration Tools)
[ ] Other _______________

Please provide a brief summary of your Suggestion/Idea
Alright, so to start this off. This main idea around this is to avoid legal loopholes for criminals to exploit (if that makes sense). Currently, you can add a map that looks like a prison with 30 Feet high steel walls and unsupervised/un-inspected buildings within. If you do not believe me, go behind Mount Chiliad and check the forest area (You will see my map that I added). IRL, a city planning department would not approve that without valid licenses and intentions put in place (which probably would never happen unless you are constructing a fucking prison or military depot).

So to sum this up. The Government Planning Department will approve plans (.map files), construct them with contractors they hire or just with their own staff. They Will also be in charge to inspect business, residential properties (if complaints are made, or routinely) and all public spheres to avoid any damage or damage to citizens. The planning department will basically have the right to tear your whole fucking house down, if it does not uphold to IRL laws regarding safety. Or at least sue you after several fines issued. I will (with other staff members) compile a list of restrictions and rules that plans (maps) should uphold to, that's drawn from IRL state laws (California? Where ever our server is based on legally). Violating certain property/planning laws will either get you fined, evicted, sued or ultimately arrested with your property being demolished. Which is after all what happens in real life, if you decide to construct things that serves as a public threat.

My main intent, is to revamp my current faction "De Broglio Construction Firm" in to the Government Planning Department. As we have existing infrastructure to assist with the above, and also the existing personnel. And to repeat this, the above can only be implemented if complaints are made against your property or if it fails inspections. Again, a list of rules and regulations will be made for properties of all sorts.

Advantages/Benefits
- Cover IC Legal loopholes.
- Restrict players from constructing bullshit that's totally just insane and unrealistic?
- Promote RP of different sorts (Involving PD, Illegal Roleplays, Planning Dep).
- Promoting Character Immersion.

Disadvantages
- Players will QQ as always.
- They will ignore the restriction/rules and probably leave the server if they get sued, fined or seizure of property. But that's just always what QQ'rs do.



Does it require scripting?
Tick one
[X] No.
[ ] Yes, I have the script.
[ ] Yes, but it still needs to be scripted.

How would you go about implementing this suggestion?
- Rename De Broglio Construction Firm to 'Government Planning Department'
- Create Additional Positions for staff. Such is Business Licensing Staff, Property Inspection Staff, etc.
- Research existing state laws regarding construction/property/public sphere laws, and provide a list of reasonable and expected rules that characters should follow.
- Change colour of vehicles and their descriptions to match Government themes.
- Use existing/Create new procedures for inspections, violations, constructions.
- Update Legal system.

Impact the suggestion would have if implemented
- Listed in Advantages/Disadvantages

Additional information:
Currently, the mapping team/head of mapping approves maps and such. Which is perfectly fine but it really blocks roleplay? Because face it, everything head of mapping staff can do -can be done in character accordingly. It should be done in character. Because if a server staff members declines a map proposal, with who does the character/persona appeal the decision, it only results in QQ. We can't keep slamming the OOC "Not RP" excuse for declining roleplay etc. We need to create IC systems, that will convert OOC QQ to IC roleplay. And this suggestion is just one of them.

Now you may be think it's too much control for a faction. And I strongly disagree even though it is probably. But it's not a valid argument. That's just like saying PD has to much control over arresting character or CK'ing them. It's an argument that contradicts itself. By implementing this suggestion, it will impact RP greatly by promoting more RP. Think about it. You are running a meth lab in your house. All of a sudden, a Gov Planning Department inspection personnel knocks on your door -saying a neighbor complained about what not. The inspector walks in, sees multiple violations. Call us in a court order to seal off the property until a thorough investigation is made. Within a few days, the owners is evicted or the place is demolished since the roof is about to give in or something. It's just a hypothetical example. There are countless more since we won't just be focusing on that. Promote RP people. Stop fucking driving around in V12 Donor cars. Stop being incompetent roleplayers.

And another thing. I know this for a fact. Before you can sign off a home to a new owner. It must be inspected thoroughly. You call those personnel home inspectors I believe?
 
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JTA

<b><span style="color:#47761E;"t>FiveM Developer</
Donator
Re: Suggestion - Implementing City Planning Department (Faction Change)

+1
 

GamingBox

[b] Staff? Idk even anymore [/b]
You might think they QQ when their maps get declined, but that ain't actually true. Mostly if people have problems about their mapping not getting added. We tell them the reason, and how they should improve on said mapping to make it possible to add. Giving the power of deciding what mapping should get added or removed to a faction, sure making it more IC, but making everything happen IC'ly ain't always better. Lets start off with faction leadership changes. What happens when the faction gets a new leadership? Or doesn't get one at all? So does the faction fall apart completley? We have Head of Mapping (Kane) who checks thru every map that gets requested and looks if they should or shouldn't get added. Of course there are exceptions if someone adds the mapping without approving first. But putting such trust into a faction I don't see how that could end good in anyway.
 

Buddy

Lead Administrator
Staff member
Lead Administrator
You might think they QQ when their maps get declined, but that ain't actually true. Mostly if people have problems about their mapping not getting added. We tell them the reason, and how they should improve on said mapping to make it possible to add. Giving the power of deciding what mapping should get added or removed to a faction, sure making it more IC, but making everything happen IC'ly ain't always better. Lets start off with faction leadership changes. What happens when the faction gets a new leadership? Or doesn't get one at all? So does the faction fall apart completley? We have Head of Mapping (Kane) who checks thru every map that gets requested and looks if they should or shouldn't get added. Of course there are exceptions if someone adds the mapping without approving first. But putting such trust into a faction I don't see how that could end good in anyway.

What I am reading is is mainly trust issues. Which can easily be fixed if you read through the thread again and understanding the concept that I am working with. We will not replace Head of Mapping. That can still exist. But we want to be able to decline's someone's renovation or proposal if it breaks IRL existing state laws regarding construction. And I am not referring to pity shit. But major things. Such as the size of walls around properties. The amount of buildings within a property. The structural support within constructions. And also whether business have fire extinguishers etc installed. Basic public safety laws/residential laws.

It will work as the following:
(For map additions)
1) Player make a ticket for map approval. It gets approved by Mapping team.
2) Player Contact Gov Planning Dep. Schedules meeting/submit plans (.map file).
3) Gov planning department sees a fucking industrial building on a residential city property. And declines it.
4) Gov Official says, this is a big no no. Please fix this this and this.
5) Player repeats, and sets required screenshots to the ticket responder to finalize things.
6) Gov official approves after correction, moves process to actual construction.

(For inspections)
1) Gov Official shows up, inspects stated property. Sees multiple violations.
2) Orders owner to fix those issues, give them a deadline otherwise they will receive a fine and later and court order of eviction/demolition.
3) Player fixes existing map, reports ticket center for a re-submission charge free (as minor changes will be made).
4) Inspector returns to said property, approves it's legitimacy.

And another easy response/resolution regarding faction leadership changes, it's quite simple. Like I've said. The faction leader shall not be able to change the existing IC server laws regarding property laws. Like no government can change any law without procedures that involves a lot of paperwork and votings etc. The laws will remain, and be implement. How they are implement is certainly changeable by the leader. Since the result will still be the same. You will either get fined, sued, evicted, arrested or your property being demolished if it reaches the legal extent. And this will be supervised accordingly, and if not FRT can remove the incompetent supervisors/leaders. As it's their job. If you have an issue with that, just do you job lmao? This will avoid the whole players crying situation. Unless they QQ due to them actually IC'ly breaking the issued laws.

This is what I despise here. The constant negative response to suggestions/implementations. Such as this will result players to cry/qq and leave. Fuck that. It's not about them. We want to promote roleplay, and what this does is exactly that. And if you not make the efforts to implement suggestions, you will not notice improvements or actual RP taking place. Unless we only promote only Cops & Robbers, which deserves nothing more but low attendance and RP participation. I am making these threads to actual create RP for players so they do not just drive around doing fuckol. If the result of this suggestion is that characters will sue the Gov Planning Dep/PD/Officials, then let it be. Not that they will, since they will only enforce the clearly listed laws (That we will research and establish publicly). But if they do, the ultimate outcome is still promoting RP :) So there's really no reason why you should avoid such a simple suggestion.
 
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Wuppix

not EU
+1

You might think they QQ when their maps get declined, but that ain't actually true. Mostly if people have problems about their mapping not getting added. We tell them the reason, and how they should improve on said mapping to make it possible to add. Giving the power of deciding what mapping should get added or removed to a faction, sure making it more IC, but making everything happen IC'ly ain't always better. Lets start off with faction leadership changes. What happens when the faction gets a new leadership? Or doesn't get one at all? So does the faction fall apart completley? We have Head of Mapping (Kane) who checks thru every map that gets requested and looks if they should or shouldn't get added. Of course there are exceptions if someone adds the mapping without approving first. But putting such trust into a faction I don't see how that could end good in anyway.

Doesn't seem like a probelm to me, If the head of mapping is Kane, then put Kane in the faction. If the head of mapping changes, then put them in the faction.
I believe Buddy already gave the perfect response to this in his original post when he said

Additional information:
Currently, the mapping team/head of mapping approves maps and such. Which is perfectly fine but it really blocks roleplay? Because face it, everything head of mapping staff can do -can be done in character accordingly. It should be done in character.
 

Buddy

Lead Administrator
Staff member
Lead Administrator
+1



Doesn't seem like a probelm to me, If the head of mapping is Kane, then put Kane in the faction. If the head of mapping changes, then put them in the faction.
I believe Buddy already gave the perfect response to this in his original post when he said

Not to be frank. But Kane's already a leader in it. We communicate daily etc.
 

AdamZZ

Roleplay + member
Donator
I'd support this if the following was met;

Lead mapper, comm. manager & faction leaders got together to devise an actual set of regulations of what sort of projects could and could not be accepted, along with the process which would be taken to decide whether said map should be accepted. If this isn't done, you'll be pro-longing the duration of time it takes for a map to be added for no reason, which would annoy people.
The factions management does genuine research on construction policies and the likes.
The factions management does genuine research on how to actually create diversions / detours and other traffic safety procedures.. Standing in the middle of the road with no high-vis jacket and a car parked at an intersection is -not- good enough.
Anyone who is in the faction is put through an actual training scheme, and is taught all the protocols, regulations applicable, they should also be aware of the authority that an LEO has over them, before they leave any form of probationary stage.

Main issue;

I've seen an entire intersection being blocked by a single car because someone was trying to add a stop sign on the pavement. When the police confronted them, and gave them multiple orders to move the truck due to safety issues, they declined, constantly saying "Government contracted, I can do this" "I'm calling my boss" and all that bollocks. The only thing I see happening if this gets turned into a government faction is more people thinking that they can break traffic laws / regulations just because they're under 'the government', it's already happening when your faction is contracted to put up trashcans, I wouldn't really want to see the shit that would happen if those same employees got turned into actual government members.
Another incident that occurred (which you saw) was when I pulled one of your employees over for speeding, and their excuse was that you were speeding because you were; "Scouting for places to put stop signs, as you're government contracted".
I mean.. From personal experience, I would say that this shouldn't be implemented, simply because the faction already breaks laws, and uses such dumb excuses. I'm not sure if they knew that what they were doing was.. Against the law, but, either way, at the current state the faction is, with its current employees and attitude, I would strongly advise to put it under a probation period before any decision is made to set it up as a government faction.


The main thing I don't understand, is that the only maps which look like military bases that were added.. From what I remember, were added by the Russian faction in 2017/2018, and Buddy.
I struggle to understand how you can go from chucking fuel on the fire, to suddenly saying, "Hey, actually. Nah, this was bad. No one else was doing it, just me, but now it's bad, so we should probably make an entire government faction to ensure that this stuff doesn't get added."
 
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AdamZZ

Roleplay + member
Donator
And Buddy:
"This is what I despise here. The constant negative response to suggestions/implementations. Such as this will result players to cry/qq and leave. Fuck that. It's not about them. We want to promote roleplay, and what this does is exactly that."

Feed back is feedback, negative or positive, if it's useful, it's useful.
 

Buddy

Lead Administrator
Staff member
Lead Administrator
I'd support this if the following was met;

Lead mapper, comm. manager & faction leaders got together to devise an actual set of regulations of what sort of projects could and could not be accepted, along with the process which would be taken to decide whether said map should be accepted. If this isn't done, you'll be pro-longing the duration of time it takes for a map to be added for no reason, which would annoy people.
The factions management does genuine research on construction policies and the likes.
The factions management does genuine research on how to actually create diversions / detours and other traffic safety procedures.. Standing in the middle of the road with no high-vis jacket and a car parked at an intersection is -not- good enough.
Anyone who is in the faction is put through an actual training scheme, and is taught all the protocols, regulations applicable, they should also be aware of the authority that an LEO has over them, before they leave any form of probationary stage.

Main issue;

I've seen an entire intersection being blocked by a single car because someone was trying to add a stop sign on the pavement. When the police confronted them, and gave them multiple orders to move the truck due to safety issues, they declined, constantly saying "Government contracted, I can do this" "I'm calling my boss" and all that bollocks. The only thing I see happening if this gets turned into a government faction is more people thinking that they can break traffic laws / regulations just because they're under 'the government', it's already happening when your faction is contracted to put up trashcans, I wouldn't really want to see the shit that would happen if those same employees got turned into actual government members.
Another incident that occurred (which you saw) was when I pulled one of your employees over for speeding, and their excuse was that you were speeding because you were; "Scouting for places to put stop signs, as you're government contracted".
I mean.. From personal experience, I would say that this shouldn't be implemented, simply because the faction already breaks laws, and uses such dumb excuses. I'm not sure if they knew that what they were doing was.. Against the law, but, either way, at the current state the faction is, with its current employees and attitude, I would strongly advise to put it under a probation period before any decision is made to set it up as a government faction.


The main thing I don't understand, is that the only maps which look like military bases that were added.. From what I remember, were added by the Russian faction in 2017/2018, and Buddy.
I struggle to understand how you can go from chucking fuel on the fire, to suddenly saying, "Hey, actually. Nah, this was bad. No one else was doing it, just me, but now it's bad, so we should probably make an entire government faction to ensure that this stuff doesn't get added."

Right.

As I recall it, lanes were being blocked not intersections. And that was only due to the fact we can not use the /rbs system to place cones to direct traffic and construct detours :D And all factions break laws, ever seen PD members drifting around streets and literally blowing BZR's while not in a pursuit/emergency. That is classified as minor corruption. Which according to FRT, is nothing serious.

I've seen you speeding/blowing BZR's on your pd character whilst not being in an emergency, same for multiple other members. These disputes should be taken up IC. And after all, we have multiple new roleplayers in our faction which can barely roleplay if not use grammar properly. And we are not trying to punish them, but trying to improve their knowledge/rp skills.

And I used the examples listed as common examples of scenarios that will be dealt with. And for the pro-long part. How long does it take for construction plans to be approved and implemented IRL? Do you have a general idea about that. Now we are not waiting 2 to 12 months for a plan to be accepted/processed, it will basically just be a week tops?

If your argument is the current faction is incompetent in regards to the basic RP framework we use. You might as well tear the whole Gov/PD system down and reshape it. As they are incompetent as well. Because as I know it, court trials take for ever and pro-long justice (if not avoid it) from being enforced, there is barely any PD members online, the average PD member's knowledge regarding law is minimal, their weapon training as well as tactical training is literally shocking and they all think they are robocops.

As I am trying to explain through out this whole fucking essay of a thread. The intention of this suggestion is to promote RP. Not to be power hungry. Even though Planning Departments have a high level of authority. If you are disapproving it due to the fact that this will delay the map addition duration and issue government authority, you are absolutely right! It will delay map additions, and it will construct a government framework which requires authority and laws. This is the key part that will promote RP. And whether it's an issue to you or not, renovations and constructions takes a while to complete and they are approved/moderated by government officials in real life. And it should be the same here.
 
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AdamZZ

Roleplay + member
Donator
Right.

As I recall it, lanes were being blocked not intersections. And that was only due to the fact we can not use the /rbs system to place cones to direct traffic and construct detours :D And all factions break laws, ever seen PD members drifting around streets and literally blowing BZR's while not in a pursuit/emergency. That is classified as minor corruption. Which according to FRT, is nothing serious.

I've seen you speeding/blowing BZR's on your pd character whilst not being in an emergency, same for multiple other members. These disputes should be taken up IC. And after all, we have multiple new roleplayers in our faction which can barely roleplay if not use grammar properly. And we are not trying to punish them, but trying to improve their knowledge/rp skills.

And I used the examples listed as common examples of scenarios that will be dealt with. And for the pro-long part. How long does it take for construction plans to be approved and implemented IRL? Do you have a general idea about that. Now we are not waiting 2 to 12 months for a plan to be accepted/processed, it will basically just be a week tops?

If your argument is the current faction is incompetent in regards to the basic RP framework we use. You might as well tear the whole Gov/PD system down and reshape it. As they are incompetent as well. Because as I know it, court trials take for ever and pro-long justice (if not avoid it) from being enforced, there is barely any PD members online, the average PD member's knowledge regarding law is minimal, their weapon training as well as tactical training is literally shocking and they all think they are robocops.

As I am trying to explain through out this whole fucking essay of a thread. The intention of this suggestion is to promote RP. Not to be power hungry. Even though Planning Departments have a high level of authority. If you are disapproving it due to the fact that this will delay the map addition duration and issue government authority, you are absolutely right! It will delay map additions, and it will construct a government framework which requires authority and laws. This is the key part that will promote RP. And whether it's an issue to you or not, renovations and constructions takes a while to complete and they are approved/moderated by government officials in real life. And it should be the same here.


Minor level corruption is allowed, correct. My character is corrupt, not in a minor way, but actually a bit further, again, IC issue. If I were caught doing any of that stuff, actions would be taken ICly. I don't use excuses that "I'm PD I'm allowed to do it." because, if I were to tell that to my faction leader, I'd be black listed. Let me remind you of what you said to your employee "We're not allowed to do that." From what I saw, 0 sanctions, 0 punishments, nata. Nothing.
I don't care about corruption, I care about the way it's actually handled, you, as a faction, don't handle it.

Both LEA's are inactive, completely true, do not disagree with you one bit. I've already complained to my faction owner & I'm planning on complaining to the FRT, when I find out who the FRT is assigned to SPD.

Andddd
No. The intersection was blocked. Your employee was blocking the right lane to an intersection, which would've forced drivers to go into a lane which would have traffic turning into said lane from a blind spot. Hence why he was told to move. Which he refused to do. But, again, he wasn't punished for it, at least from what I saw. Because, hey, "Failure to abide by lawful order" it's nothing serious, right?

And to break down your final point. Yep, in real life, it takes a fuck load of time for a construction company to respond.
Hell, call about a fuckin' boiler breaking down, they'll come next week.
Point is, this is a game. The reason the ticket centre is set up the way it is, at least I think these are the reasons;
1. Organisation
2. being efficient with time, being able to solve problems / requests ASAP.
Players don't want to have to wait for ages to make sure that their map gets accepted OOCly, then accepted again to ensure that it is accepted ICly. IF you actually read what I said, I said that you should arrange a meeting with the three figures, to ensure that it -ISNT- prolonged, at least not too much. This could be accomplished by allowing the faction to do both IC & OOC inspections for example.

To summarise:
I don't care about corruption, so long as it is dealt with accordingly.
I totally agree about the LEA factions status', and have even gone so far as to complain about both of them already.
Your faction does -NOT- have sufficient knowledge in traffic safety, and despite me offering multiple times to help you, or just asking to speak to you about it, you still haven't spoken to me, you just ignored me, which, hey! Ehm, rude...
Your factions structure isn't stable / competent. I'm sorry, but the day it was created you had around four leaders. If that doesn't scream "We aren't trained guys" then I don't know what does.

Sorry if I'm sounding rude. No harsh feelings <3
 

hopzzz

<b><span style="background: url(https://goo.gl/2cr
So pretty much.

What I will offer you is changing your faction name and giving you /rbs command.(if I can find it and tweak it).

Adding maps still works through TC, Kane has to approve them and you can RP build it.
You do not have rights to inspect all properties to ensure they are safe for the public.
You do not have full control on approving map additions. Thats up to Head of Mapping - Kane. Pretty much if he dislikes something on the map, he asks the player to change it.
You cannot break down or renovate players custom maps.

What you can do is renovate public places. You can create something new, that goes through high-administration for approval and then you can start building it.
You can get access to /rbs.
 

Buddy

Lead Administrator
Staff member
Lead Administrator
So pretty much.

What I will offer you is changing your faction name and giving you /rbs command.(if I can find it and tweak it).

Adding maps still works through TC, Kane has to approve them and you can RP build it.
You do not have rights to inspect all properties to ensure they are safe for the public.
You do not have full control on approving map additions. Thats up to Head of Mapping - Kane. Pretty much if he dislikes something on the map, he asks the player to change it.
You cannot break down or renovate players custom maps.

What you can do is renovate public places. You can create something new, that goes through high-administration for approval and then you can start building it.
You can get access to /rbs.

That's good for a start, I'm fine with it.
 
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